SPEAKER_02 0:04

Welcome to the Veterinary Culture Lab, where science meets real-world application. I'm Andy Davison.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

And I'm Josh Weisman. Together, we'll show you an evidence-based blueprint for renovating culture in your veterinary team. One episode at a time.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Veterinary medicine can leave us emotionally exhausted and deeply fulfilled at the exact same time. Today, we're going to explore the science behind compassion satisfaction and why meaningful work may protect our well-being more than we might realize. Hey Josh. So I know that our listeners can't see it, but you are wearing a fantastic t-shirt today. It is the Blend Vet Rainbow We Are Vet Med T-shirt, and I love it.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

That is the one. We sure do love our friends at Blend and all the great things they're doing. Do you know that they you probably do know this now, Andy? Um, they have a 501c3 Blend Vet foundation now.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

Ooh, that's fantastic. Tell me more about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Uh yeah, I mean, it's just it's a nonprofit arm of the incredible work that they're doing trying to um make veterinary medicine accessible to everybody. And uh I think it's meant to, I could be wrong. So hopefully if Cole and Janine hear this podcast, they will correct me if I'm wrong. But I think it's meant to uh help um uh finance their pathway uh programs that they do at the different events where they basically yeah, yeah, yeah. They bring like students like middle school, grade school, junior high, sometimes high school students to um these events to have them like experience veterinary medicine. And uh it's not like with real animals or anything like that, but uh to see that they this is actually a viable career path for them. And then to see people who look and sound and act like them teaching them about veterinary medicine. They're really, really cool events. So yeah, I definitely encourage all our listeners to check out Blend Vet.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Yeah, that's awesome. They're a wonderful organization, full of incredible humans.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Absolutely agree.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

Very cool. Good. Well, I'm glad you're repping them with the t-shirt today.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Yeah, I do love them.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Cool, good God. All right, well, I have a paper today that I'm kind of excited to share with you. Um, but before we get into it, I want to ask you something personal. Is that okay?

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

Okay. Because when I think about vetmed, the term paradox sometimes comes to mind for me. This profession, right, that we love seems to have this incredible ability to be both hard and meaningful at the exact same time. And while I'm pretty certain that this paradox clearly explains the sarcastic dark humor that has 100% become the script of our world, it somehow also creates tension. And I think that that tension is worth talking about because some of the moments that drain us the most also seem to become the moments that stay with us the longest. So, with that in mind, Josh, can you think of a moment in your veterinary career where you walked away completely exhausted, maybe even emotionally drained, and yet at the exact same time you felt deeply fulfilled by what you had done that day?

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Uh, I could probably think of multiple experiences of that through my right. Oh, dare I say almost 30-year career in veterinary medicine now?

unknown 3:44

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

When did that happen? I know.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

Okay, we're not old enough for that to be the case.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Yeah, yeah. Uh I I don't I was actually, I was just having this conversation with Greta with my wife recently about how like I'm I'm coming up on 50. I'm gonna be turning 50 here pretty soon. And um, well, I mean, I have you know, some aches and pains from the things that I do. I don't like in my brain, I am not a 50-year-old person at all. I like I remember being a teenager and thinking that 50 50 is like ancient, like those are old people and all people, yeah. Yeah, I I am definitely not mentally uh 50 years old. I'm probably still roughly 16.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

Um well, and the other thing about that is that I remember thinking that by the time I was 50 and old, that I would like know everything and have it together and have my life together and have my shit together. And like clearly that's not always the case.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

Yeah, still again. Can relate. Can relate. Okay, so a story of a time when I felt somehow both exhausted and fulfilled in veterinary medicine. Yeah, I am thinking back to the first practice that I ever worked at. And it was a small animal hospital in Boulder, Colorado. So it was college town, and we had gosh, it was such an interesting mix of clients. Andy, we would get like the wealthiest people on the planet, the people that could actually afford to live in Boulder, where the median house price was like $900,000. And they would come in and it didn't matter what you know, what we wanted to do, they had no problem paying and no problem doing it. And then we would get these college students, and a lot of them were like out-of-state college students, right? So they were playing paying exorbitant tuition and had almost no money of their own. And that's what this case was. So this was she was a young college student, she brought in her cat. I want to say the cat was not that old, five or six years old, something like that. Non-weight-bearing rear left leg, if I remember correctly. Uh, and to her, it felt like it this was an acute thing. Now, I was a like a veterinary assistant, I was not a technician, I was trained off the streets, that kind of thing. And the the vet that she saw, you know, did an exam, did diagnostics, x-rays, and basically the femoral head was just, it was gone. It was completely like melted away. Um, and so yeah, this cat like uh obviously was not gonna be using that leg. And he said to her, I was in the room, like I was in the room when this came up. So he kind of explained everything to her and he said, you know, I think what this cat needs is is surgery to repair this. There's a really great referral center just down the road. They have boarded surgeons, they're fantastic. And she looked at him and was like, Well, how much is that gonna cost? And he gave her his rough estimate. He's uh, you know, I don't know, you'll have to go there and find out, but it probably around this range. I don't remember what the amount was. Remember, this is like almost 30 years ago, probably. All right, right.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

So that was a long amount.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

1900 to $2,500, something like that, which to us now is like, oh, that's dirt cheap. But at the time it was a lot of money, and I will never forget like the look on her face. Like you could see the tears start to well up, and then she just lost it. I don't have that kind of money. There's no way I can do this. I don't know what to do. My poor cat is suffering. I need to help it, whatever. And he said to her, Well, someday I hope you get to meet this guy. You would love him. He said to her, Well, I'm not a boarded surgeon and I've never done this procedure before, but there's a thing called a um, what was it? An uh uh uh Bemoral Head osteotomy, F is that right? FHO. FHO. Yeah, yeah. F H O. There's this thing called an FHO, and I've never done one, but I feel like I could do it. I'll tell you what, if you're willing to bring your cat in after hours, I'll do it for you for like a hundred bucks. And she just lit up, right? Like she was so excited. Now, we went through the rest of our workday, and we get to the end of the day, which by the way was I don't know what number of days in a row for me and how many ridiculous hours I had been working. And so I, you know, I mean, I was thoroughly exhausted. We get to the end of my shift, and you know, I'm getting ready to go. And he says to me, Um, can you come back and help me? And like in my mind, I'm like, all I want to do is go turn into a vegetable on my couch. I'm finally done with the stretch of shifts. I'm gonna have the day off tomorrow. Like, all I need is to just freaking rest and recover. But how do you say no? And so I said, sure, yeah, I can come back and help. Now, at the time, Boulder, where I lived, was I don't know, 30, 40-minute drive away. And it at the end of my shift, and then when I needed to come back after hours, it was not a huge amount of time. It didn't make sense for me to go home. So I didn't even go home. I just went and like grabbed a bite to eat and then came back to the hospital as the practice was closing. So, you know, technicians mopping in the back the whole bit. It's really funny. I walk in and he is I'm I'm not saying names to protect the innocent here. Uh he he is stooped over a dental table.

SPEAKER_02 8:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Doing what appears to be surgery on a dog, and there's no anesthetic machine around. And I'm like at first horrified, what is happening here? And then I realize what is happening here. Um, there was a euthanasia that occurred that day that was going for general cremation. Um, and he, I don't know if he had asked permission, I think, or something, but he was practicing the FHO on this dead dog, yeah, which was hilarious. So, you know, helped him through that, and then we got the cat all prepped for surgery, uh, you know, uh uh pre-meded, anesthetized in the OR. I literally like printed the pages from the textbook on the instructions of how to do it at FHO, taped it up in the wall in the OR, and at eight o'clock at night we started the surgery. It probably took less than an hour. We recovered the cat. I stuck around till I don't know, 10 or 10:30, whatever the heck time it was after starting that work day at like seven in the morning. And um, and then he let me go. He stayed for a little bit longer. Five days later, she brought the cat in for a recheck, and the cat was walking. And like, I mean, just like doing the surgery and seeing the cat recover and like knowing that things were good, like that was that was an awesome moment. But it was five days later, it was like all of a sudden, the exhaustion, that long ass day, the stretch of days that I worked, it all just disappeared. It like it just completely disappeared. And I lit up, and I still like I get a little bit of chills thinking back to that experience. I mean, this girl was so eternally grateful. And this cat, like, I mean, it's an FHO, you and I both know it's a relatively simple procedure, it's not that big a deal, but it it literally changed this cat's life and then the life of this woman. And it's like that was it, that made it all worth it.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

Yeah, I can tell it was insanely meaningful for you. I mean, that happened just yesterday, and you remember all the details. You remember, you know, you remember what leg the cat was lame on. You remember, you know, what time of day it started, you remember how it felt five days later when she came back and brought her kitty and it was walking.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

So, Josh, what do you think specifically made that such an impactful and meaningful moment for you?

SPEAKER_00 10:51

I I mean, I think you just used the word uh impact. It felt like I had made um, you know, an effort, uh, an expenditure of my limited time, my limited knowledge, my limited resources and energy. I had chosen to spend it on something, and I did choose. I mean, he asked me to show up to come back, and you know, I said yes and whatever. I did choose, but it felt like I was spending to be there to do that thing. And then all of a sudden, five days later, I saw the the quote return on that investment in the impact that we had made. And, you know, I it's so I guess the way that I could describe it is uh you I don't know, you spend money um on a trip. I I'm thinking about a trip that you just did, Andy, a few years ago when you in April, right, went um West uh for the the big like, yeah, yeah. Like you, you know, you you invest time in planning it, you spend money, and you're kind of excited about it, but you haven't done it yet. But then you go and it turns out to be this just amazing experience. And then all of a sudden, all of the money that you spent, all the time you invested in preparing for it, all the time you were away from other things, away from your family, whatever it might be, doesn't matter because it was worth it. So that that's for me what made it meaningful was like seeing the tangible impact that our efforts and time and energy had made on this cat and on her human companion. Um, yeah, made everything completely worthwhile.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

Yeah, I love that. You remember those impactful emotions that came with it over the exhaustion that you felt probably while you were standing there on hour 13, you know, monitoring anesthesia on this cat.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 12:36

Oh my gosh, yeah. I've absolutely had those feelings too. They would usually happen in the middle of the night for me when I was completely exhausted physically and emotionally. And somehow I was still totally energized underneath it all because something about that moment felt meaningful and like you said, impactful and deeply human. And honestly, I think that that tension is what sits right at the center of the paper that I brought for us to chat more about today. Because the paper actually gives language to that experience through a concept called compassion satisfaction. And what I really appreciated about it is that it approaches well-being from a positive psychology lens, right? So it fits right in with the conversations that we are drawn to. It's not ignoring stress, burnout, or the emotional load that comes with veterinary medicine, because you and I and all of our listeners out there know that that's all too real. But instead of asking what's hurting veterinary professional, this paper wants to know more about what can protect them emotionally while we are doing this meaningful work. And I think that's a really important conversation to have. So if you're ready, we could dig into this paper a little bit. What do you say?

SPEAKER_00 13:53

I yeah, I think I'm ready. Um you're gonna have to forgive me. I'm a little bit off today.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

I uh uh, why is that?

SPEAKER_00 13:59

I had really weird dreams last night. I so I uh because of travel, I haven't played soccer as much, and then I'm home this week. I've been home the whole week. So I've actually played all three nights Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and we're recording this on a Friday. And of course, every game started between 8 and 9 p.m. Cool and where I play soccer is 30 to 45 minutes from home. Yeah, so and then you know you get home from playing this crazy game and you're wired, and so you don't go to sleep till 11 or 12. I my aura says that my um sleep debt is um increasing, and my average sleep score, I think this week has been like 72. So I'm a little bit off. I think what happens when I get like that though is that I have strange dreams. And last night I had a dream that I was a muffler. Like literally, I was the muffler in one of my cars, you know, just driving along, making muffler exhaust noises. Yeah, I woke up totally exhausted.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

As you would. As you would. As you would. If you were if you were a muffler in the middle of a dad joke.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

All of that was true up until the dad joke portion.

SPEAKER_02 15:01

It's fair. It's just it was a dad joke that fit in perfectly with what you're experiencing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

It did.

SPEAKER_02 15:09

Oh, good. Okay, well, mufflers aside, let's talk about this paper. Because I got let's do it, got kind of excited about it. The paper that we're discussing today, it came out in 2024 and it's got a long title, like they all seem to do, right? These freaking academic researchers do love a subtitle. And the title of this paper is Life Satisfaction, Psychological Distress, Compassion Satisfaction, and Resilience. When the pleasure of helping others protects veterinary staff from emotional suffering. Heck of a title. Now, this article, it was written by here we go, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna butcher it, I'm gonna try my best, Maria Manuela PXoto and Olga Kunha. And it was published in the Veterinary Research Communications in 2024. And inside that big long title is a hint at that central tension that we're kind of exploring here today. They wanted to know can the meaningful parts of helping others actually protect veterinary professionals emotionally? Because historically, a lot of veterinary well-being research has understandably focused on psychological distress. But this paper, while acknowledging that, actually focuses on that paradoxal labor, which basically means that the work that we do in vetmed is meaningful and emotionally difficult all at the same time. And honestly, that feels like a painfully accurate description of veterinary medicine. Because the work that we do, it can simultaneously break your heart, exhaust you, frustrate you, and make you feel deeply connected to the purpose and the meaning of this absolutely beautiful profession. So the researchers wanted to better understand how several psychological well-being factors interact with one another in veterinary professionals. So they specifically looked at life satisfaction, that's psychological distress, resilience, social support, and compassion satisfaction. Now, compassion satisfaction became a really important concept in this paper, which essentially refers to the positive emotional experience that we get from helping others. That feeling of what I did mattered here. And honestly, I think this extends far beyond patient care alone. I think that compassion satisfaction in veterinary medicine can also come from mentoring a teammate, helping a coworker through a difficult day, teaching a new technician how to place an IV catheter, or simply showing up for another human in a meaningful way. Because some of the most meaningful moments in vetmed can happen between colleagues. So, method-wise, this was a quantitative study examining relationships between all of these variables. Essentially, the researchers were asking do resilience and compassion satisfaction help buffer psychological distress? Does feeling fulfilled by helping others contribute to overall well-being? And how strongly are those concepts connected to one another? And honestly, the findings, Josh, they were really pretty interesting because the study found that higher life satisfaction was associated with lower psychological distress, which I know that probably doesn't surprise anybody that's listening. But what was really interesting was how that relationship appeared to work. The researchers found that compassion satisfaction and resilience both acted as protective factors. But interestingly enough, compassion satisfaction was actually stronger. In fact, compassion satisfaction explained about 59% of the relationship between life satisfaction and psychological distress in this study. 59%. And it kind of surprised me a little bit because veterinary medicine, myself included, talks a lot about resilience. And understandably so. But this particular paper suggests that the meaningful emotional experience of helping others may actually play a pretty large role in protecting our well-being. And now, importantly, this does not mean meaningful work magically erases suffering. This paper is not saying, oh, if you just love your job more, then everything will be fine, because that would be wildly unhelpful. Instead, the findings suggest that the meaningful experiences within the work may serve as protective psychological resources, almost like shock absorbers. So we're not removing the bumps, we're just helping people absorb them differently. And honestly, I think many veterinary professionals recognize this intuitively because there are days for one meaningful interaction, one successful case, one moment of connection, one teammate check-in, or one reminder of how the work that you're doing matters can completely change how hard a day feels emotionally. Now, another thing I appreciate about this paper is that it reinforces the idea that well-being is not simply the absence of distress. And I think that that's a huge conversation in veterinary medicine right now. Because if organizations only focus on reducing burnout while ignoring meaning, connection, and mattering, well, then we're only solving part of the problem. Because flourishing is not how do we suffer less. It is also what helps us remain emotionally connected to the meaningful work that we do in FedMed. And honestly, I think that's the real heartbeat of this paper. Now, Josh, one thing that kept kind of coming up for me when I was reading through this paper is sometimes it feels really good to support a coworker, just as good as it can feel to support a client or a patient. And to me, that feels like another possible source for compassion satisfaction. So I'm curious, what what do you think about sort of my conclusion there? And where specifically have you seen veterinary professionals experience this compassion satisfaction in everyday practice life?

SPEAKER_00 21:45

That that's a very interesting question. Um two parts. What do I think about your conclusion and where have I seen these kinds of things happening? Uh I I think your conclusion makes sense. The paper may not have directly addressed that, but I think it's uh I think it's sensical to intuit that, if only because compassion satisfaction also exists in human medicine. The people you're taking care of are other people. And so I think this idea of caring for others can lead to compassion satisfaction in the professional context makes perfect sense to me. And as I'm thinking about that, I'm remembering a story. So, Andy, in my in my master's program for my um final study for the the thesis research that I did, I um I interviewed credentialed veterinary technicians. I did these semi-structured, very intense interviews, uh roughly 90 minutes on average per interview. And I I asked them, there were two questions, but the primary research question was tell me about a time in as much detail as you possibly can when you felt particularly alive, energized, or enthusiastic in your work. And uh one of the stories that one of the technicians told me um was about something that she had done to help a client that then a team member shared with her that gave her an immense sense of compassion satisfaction. Um, and it was the fact that she had like, she had reached out to this person. It wasn't, I mean, obviously the person was there because of something with her animal, but she saw a need in another human being, reached out to try and meet or alleviate that need, had made an impact on that person to the point that that client then called the hospital the next day to tell somebody what a difference it made for her. And then that person who received the call went back to the technician to share it with her. And that added just such an immense amount of satisfaction to uh what I would call compassion satisfaction to her work. Um, yeah, I think things like that, there's opportunities for that every single day.

SPEAKER_02 23:52

Oh, that's such a cool example because I think that it takes the science that these particular researchers found and it adds on my crazy conclusions to show that it's it can build as a level, right? That there was absolutely compassion satisfaction between this particular technician and the client that they supported. And when their colleague went back to them to share how impactful that was overall, that was then coworker supporting co-worker that just elevated that compassion satisfaction even more. That's yeah, that's that's great. I I'm all excited thinking about that. That's really cool. I know. Well, the other thing that keeps nagging me here, and I'll admit this might be a little bit spicy on my part, but it feels like an important nuance in this paper because, on one hand, meaningful work can be protective and nourishing. I mean, yeah, the paper makes it clear. But on the other hand, I think that vetmed sometimes can weaponize meaning a little too much. So you love the work. So you should therefore tolerate the not so awesome things that come with it, like the emotional overload, the poor boundaries, the communication conundrum, self-sacrifice. Almost like meaning can sometimes become justification for unhealthy systems. Like I said, I get it. That's a little bit spicy. You think I'm being spicy or you think that's legit, Josh?

SPEAKER_00 25:28

Um I for what it's worth, I think you're allowed to be spicy whenever you want. Uh I I think it's, I mean, I think it's a legitimate concern. I I think, and there's actually literature to back this, not that I'm aware of in veterinary medicine specifically, but in other like caregiving areas similar. Um, I remember uh um a paper, I want to say the title of it was like uh The Dark Side of a Calling. Uh, and it was research that was done on zookeepers. And um what I suspect, Andy, in in people's defense, what I suspect is unintentional weaponization of uh you know meaningful work. Um I don't I don't I struggle to imagine that there's a lot of leaders in veterinary medicine who you know wake up in the morning thinking uh about how they're gonna take advantage of uh the sense of calling and the and the source of meaning and purpose. Never, never, never.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

We've we have met we have met so many humans in veterinary medicine, I think it's very safe to say that it is full of absolutely incredible people that don't wake up in the morning and think, wah uh, how can I leverage this against people, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:37

Yeah, but it does happen. But it does happen. And I think I think the ways that it often happens is um in um kicking the cans down the road. If people keep showing up to workplaces in which we subject them, even if it's unintentionally, to emotional overload, poor boundaries, communication conundrums, self-sacrifice, all the things that you talked about, if people continue to show up to those workplaces, what is the stimulus for us to make changes to them? And then the problems persist. So yeah, I think it's a very legitimate concern.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

And if those things continue to get rewarded and celebrated, then there's that enabling that can sometimes happen too.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 27:20

Absolutely. So, how do we hold on to that compassion satisfaction without drifting into that self-sacrificing culture?

SPEAKER_00 27:28

Yeah. I I think that that that's probably a three-hour conversation that you and I could have just on that question. I mean, I think it probably takes a systematic approach from both people in leadership. So, you know, a practice manager, a medical director, a technician lead, uh, and quote, the people on the floor. Um, I think that, you know, something has to happen in both. First of all, I think that we need to create um systems and and places for the people on the floor to be able to express legitimately and feel heard when they are experiencing emotional overload, um, when they feel like their boundaries are being crossed or disregarded. Um, you know, when when they uh don't feel like they can say no to things, um, and they have to say yes, uh, you know, there's gotta be a way for that to be communicated and heard and acted on. And then of course those things need to be acted on. Uh, you know, we need to put structures in place that allow for that. So um uh those things to be healthier in the organization. I think that also leaders can make a concerted effort to uh, you know, look for, identify, share stories of impact, uh, you know, and contribution and show people uh how the work that they're doing is meaningful. I think that leaders can also be cognizant and aware of noticing and acting on when people might be crossing the line in terms of self-sacrifice uh and acting on those things too. Hey, Andy, I noticed that you've picked up extra shifts to cover for people three times in the last month. Um, you're gonna take the next two days off. You know, like I mean, what a wonderful thing if a manager could do something like that.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

Or you could have done what I did, which was reward that person, right? Thank them. Oh gosh, this is so great. Thank you so much for picking up this shift. Thank you so much. This is the fourth time. This is amazing. You're so reliable. Like, oh man, the damage that I was doing as a manager when I would celebrate those people that would literally sacrifice themselves. It oh man. I mean, that's one of those like I wish I I wish I'd known better so that I could have done better.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

Same.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Totally. It's heartbreaking to think back on when we've done things like that. No, I totally agree. So I I mean, those are all little things, but they I think they're all interrelated. Again, I could talk about this one forever. So I'll I'll just shut up now.

SPEAKER_02 29:56

That's okay, we'll get to because we're going to get to talk about how we can take some of this science, right? And how we can take this value that comes with compassion satisfaction and use it to renovate our cultures and implement this stuff into our world every day. Because if this paper is telling us that compassion, if this paper is telling us that compassion satisfaction, say say that three times fast, like compassion satisfaction. That's that's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

I want to try. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Compassion satisfaction, compassion satisfaction, compassion satisfaction. Oh my God. Ooh, show off. I didn't know. I really honestly did not expect that I would be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

Um, listeners, he definitely had to close his eyes and concentrate real hard to doing that.

SPEAKER_00 30:39

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:41

That is so funny. That is so funny. But it's, I mean, maybe we should practice saying it more because it needs to be something that we focus on a little bit more. Because if we can focus on that compassion satisfaction, it can actually help protect our well-being. And with our additional argument that this goal can also help protect self-sacrifice, I think the obvious next question then becomes how do we create opportunities for people to productively experience this? And honestly, for me, one thing that this paper clearly reinforces is that helping others can be emotionally protective and deeply meaningful for us as veterinary professionals. Heck, for us as humans. And while this paper does name clients and patients as those other people, I think it's really worth making that connection that other people can also be colleagues, teams, and coworkers, which means one really practical culture renovation strategy is to create more opportunities for people to meaningfully contribute to the other people that they work with. Not just complete the task, but contribute to it. Like I mentioned earlier, it might look like mentoring newer team members, teaching one another, inviting people to share ideas, involving people in improving workflows, or simply creating an environment where helping others is part of the culture instead of an occasional accident. Because I think people experience a different kind of fulfillment when they feel like I helped my colleague today. I made my team stronger and my presence here, it matters. And honestly, I think the second piece here is just slowing down long enough to notice those moments when they're happening. That med, it moves fast. And we're usually well into the next problem before we have the emotional capacity to process the last one, which means meaningful moments that can disappear really quickly if nobody acknowledges them. So I think a really practical thing that the team can do is to build in tiny moments of reflection into the culture, not cheesy, forced in a positive sort of kind of way, but genuine. Now, listeners will probably know that I'm a big fan of marker boards, and today's episode will be no different. Because wouldn't it be cool to put up a big marker board in the back or near the break room and share a prompt like, who made my job easier today? People could share meaningful moments in a really visible way that's human and that normalizes noticing compassion satisfaction. Another prompt could be, who did I help today? I get that this one's a little bit more vulnerable, which is actually why I like the marker board approach because people could share as much or as little as they want and they could do it anonymously. Now, if marker boards aren't your jam, you could certainly weave these questions into rounds or into huddles because sometimes compassion satisfaction, it's not missing. It's just moving too quickly for people to absorb it. And honestly, I think cultures that support compassion satisfaction, compassion satisfaction, compassion satisfaction, compassion satisfaction help people stay emotionally connected to why this work matters and who they matter to while they're doing it. So it might be things like that. I don't know. What do you think, Josh? Before I get off on my TED talk and somebody cues some very meaningful, affectionate piano music in the background, what would you add here?

SPEAKER_00 34:17

Um okay, so I'm thinking of two things. Uh internally, I'm thinking of um what is rewarded is repeated. And so, like back to what you and I were talking about earlier, if we are consistently like showering people with gratitude for uh self-sacrifice, we will see self-sacrifice repeated uh by those who are willing and able and uh by those who um you know recognize it for what it is, excessive self-sacrifice at the cost of compassion satisfaction, um they will back away from that. They will be resentful, uh, they might leave. Um, so if if we're gonna play to this, like what what we reward will be repeated, then I think we should start rewarding uh self-care, finding ways to say, you know what, Andy, you called in sick yesterday, and I'm really grateful that you did uh because taking care of yourself is is essential when you're not here, so that when you are here, you can do the best for our patients and clients. Um, you know, being able to do that, to to to switch, to be cognizant of the things that we're rewarding, um, and uh be consistent in rewarding the kinds of things we want to see more of, genuinely want to see more of. Now, I'm I'm gonna express something here because I can I can almost hear the the people grumbling of like, well, if I reward people for taking time off, they're just gonna take more time off. That is absolutely a real risk. But if you reward people for self-sacrifice, you're gonna see more self-sacrifice and more people who are resentful for those self-sacrificers and more turnover and more burnout. So decide which is the potential downside that you're more comfortable with. If you're if you decide, I I would much rather have self-sacrifice at the risk of burnout and turnover than have people who take care of themselves, quote, in excess. Okay, then this is not gonna work for you. But you have to recognize that that is the decision that you are making. You don't get to have the best of both worlds. Externally, the a thing that that that's coming up for me is um, you know, we talked earlier about collecting stories of impact. Uh, I've shared this one before. I don't remember if I've shared it in a podcast episode, but I've definitely shared it with some people. Your team is making a difference in the lives of patients and clients every single day. They don't often get to see the results of that. I mean, that I only got to see the results of that thing with that cat because I happened to be working that day when they came back in, and I happened to be the exam room uh you know assistant, and so I got to see that. Otherwise, I don't know if anyone would have shared that with me. Uh, and and it wouldn't have been quite as meaningful had I actually seen it from the client themselves. Every hospital has a list of clients that you know you're all going to be thinking about this as you listen to this. It's your your very best clients, the clients that like literally, if they could go to the top of their house and sing your praises to the entire neighborhood, they would do it. You know, they're they love you to death. You all have a list of them. Is it every client? No, but it's more than one, I guarantee you, and it's probably dozens, if not more than that. What if you like had one of those clients every month? You you hey Andy, listen, you've been such a great client here at ABC Vet Hospital. We love you to death. Um, we feel like you love us. It would be really helpful if you could come in over lunch and just share with my team for 10 or 15 minutes the difference that they've made in the life of you and Scout. And I'll give you a hundred dollar credit on your uh, you know, on your account if you do that. I'll buy you lunch too, you know, whatever, right? And then once a month you had a client come in and just share those things in their own words, face to face in front of your team. Or get them to record a video or whatever, just something, right? So uh it it's a very human way of showing people like you made a difference here that might lead to a higher level of compassion satisfaction for them.

SPEAKER_02 38:16

I love that because it involves it involves the clients, right? I mean, it broadens that impact out to include the team as well as the clients and the patients that are clearly a great source of compassion satisfaction here. That's I love all of that. Yeah. And I really think that this paper, it gives language to something that a lot of veterinary professionals have probably felt for a really long time, right? That this work can be emotionally difficult and deeply meaningful at the exact same time. And honestly, I appreciate that the paper didn't just focus on what's hurting veterinary professionals, but it asks what helps to sustain us while we're doing this meaningful work. And I think that it's an important shift because thriving in veterinary medicine is about helping people remain connected to the meaning, the contribution, the relationships and purpose and the very human moments that remind us why this work matters in the first place. And honestly, I think one of the biggest takeaways from today's conversation is that compassion satisfaction is probably not something that we should just hope people stumble upon. That we can create cultures that support it, teams that build it, leaders that influence it. And sometimes the smallest moments between coworkers end up being the biggest moments that protect us the most, which both feels very scientific and very veterinary medicine. Now, you know what other small moments can be pretty influential?

SPEAKER_00 39:54

Um I'm gonna take a gander here. It's the small moments of epic behavior that happens in a tiny little state in the southeast of the US.

SPEAKER_02 40:07

That peninsula, everybody's favorite peninsula, right? Florida. Yep. And Florida man, I don't know, I don't know if his moments are small moments, but epic is definitely a way, a way to put it. Because the this this headline, I don't know. I feel like I say this about everyone, and I'm like super excited to share it because it's hilarious, but it's true about every single headline, and this one is absolutely no exception. Florida man arrested for calling 911 after his cat was denied entry to the club. So a Florida man visited a Florida nightclub alongside his kitten, but the officials denied access to the facility. Now, instead of leaving, this Florida man called 911. And when the cops arrived, he was uncooperative and continued calling 911, and he was arrested for the misuse of 911.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

Um, was the cat also arrested?

SPEAKER_02 41:06

Oh, su surely not. The cat did nothing wrong. He was just being cute and wanted to go to the club.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

That is amazing. You mean my cat's not on the list?

SPEAKER_02 41:16

Yep, yep. This is this is a warning to all club owners. Put the cat on the list. So funny.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

That is amazing. I'll bet his cat is named Chairman Meow.

SPEAKER_02 41:25

Oh, I'm sure it is. If it's not, it should be.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:29

Oh, good. Well, listen, thank you for being here with me today. Thanks for letting me bring this article to share and have a great conversation. To all of our listeners, thanks for taking the time to hang out with us. Be sure to check out the links in the show notes and follow the podcast. And if you would take a moment to rate it, we would be forever grateful. Until next time, bye.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

See ya.

SPEAKER_02 41:55

Thanks for hanging out with us in the Veterinary Culture Lab, covered by the science of workplace well-being, and brought to you by Flourished Veterinary Consulting. If today's episode sparked an idea, made you smile, or got you thinking, hey, I should totally try that. Let us know. What do you think? Be sure to subscribe, share, and remember a thriving veterinary culture is possible, and you don't have to build it alone.