Awesome, Andi. Super excited to be here with you. I'm really jazzed for, uh, this particular paper that we're gonna discuss today. I think it's gonna be super fun. But before we do, I have to tell you, I've had the weirdest experience this Oh, yeah. This past week. Yeah. Yeah. I like at, for every day, for the past few days, I've gotten a package delivered here with no return address.

There's no card inside. Like, I have no idea. Who this is from, why they're sending it to me. But every day it's the same thing. Four days in a row, I open up this package and inside is a stock of celery. What I know it's the strangest thing in the world. Somebody's just randomly sending me celery in the mail without claiming any responsibility.

I'm starting to feel like I'm being stalked.

That's, that's a good one. Like, that's gonna go, that's gonna go in the repertoire. That's a good one. Yep. Thanks. Thanks. I appreciate it. That's a, that's a good one. Yep. I'm being stalked. I think you are. You're definitely being stalked. I am being stalked. That's like the literal definition of being stalked.

For real. Funny, I've been, I've been thinking a lot lately, I'm sure you've run into this too, with folks that you, you know, speak to out in the veterinary community when you're speaking or consulting with clients and this and that, and one of the things that we hear about is this word drama. Mm-hmm. Right.

There's always, there's drama in my hospital. Mm-hmm. It's like thrown around as if like, vet med is nothing but like a cesspool of drama. Um, and it certainly seems to come up like with folks that are talking about, you know, challenging workplaces, right? Mm-hmm. Like, uh, you know, oh, I've got this toxic person.

They're always bringing the drama, things like that. Well, for today's episode, we're gonna zoom in on psychological needs and how they shape culture, and you know, how that relates to this thing of drama. But we're gonna talk about a little different kind of drama. But before we do that, I wanted to ask you something.

Mm-hmm. How do you feel about. Drama in the workplace. Oh, I'm with everybody else. I am 100. I'm with every, that is exactly where my brain goes, right? You think of challenging conversations. You think of difficult connections, difficult relationships. You think of stuff that doesn't go your way. You think of dumpster fires left and right.

You think of short staffed teams. You think of all the things you have to do that you don't have time to do, and the attitudes and the s. Right that come with it. Yeah. That is exactly where my brain goes. And given that drama is no good, nobody wants drama. I don't want that. I want things to be calm and quiet and rolling along where everybody collaborates and works together to get to the common goal.

And in my mind, drama is the exact opposite of that. Yeah. Yeah. Have you, have you encountered any of these places where like they'll, in an attempt to try and control that, they'll put like a drama free zone mm-hmm. Policy in their handbook or something like that, as if you could, I feel like that just accentuates the drama.

Yeah, exactly. Right. Like you could, like, somehow you're gonna be able to contain drama by just putting a policy in of like, there's no drama here. Yeah. I think it's absolutely hilarious. Um, switching gears a little bit, um. You have said, and I recognize that I am your boss asking you this question, but you have said to others, I've heard through the grapevine that you seem to really love your job here at At Flourish Veterinary Consulting.

I'm curious to hear just a couple little snippets about what, what about your job do you love? Like what specifically do you love about your work here at Flourish? Hmm. Um, boss or not? I'm happy to go on about how much I absolutely adore being a part of the Flourish team. I will tell anyone that listens because it is 100% true.

Uh, there's a lot, there's a lot of things that contribute to how much I love my job and. The, the biggest one for me is the impact that is possible with the work that we do. Okay. I love Vet Med. I love the humans of Vet Med. I always say Vet Med is the best, industry in the whole wide world full of the most amazing people, and I totally believe that.

And I am lucky enough to be in a job where I get to support them and it can make a really big. Difference. Yeah. And that's huge for me. That's huge for me. You, 

you find your work meaningful. 

Very, 

yeah. 

Very. 

Do you tell me a bit. Do, do you, do you feel like you have a sense of control over how your work is meaningful?

Like do you get to decide where and how to be impactful? 

Yes, and that's probably the second. Thing that really contributes to why this job is so freaking amazing, because I'm given the autonomy to do it in a way that feels right for me, in a way that works well in my life in a way that makes sense.

And I'm gonna admit it took me a minute, right, to get used to that because I'd come from jobs and and positions and responsibilities that were. You know, this is how we do it. This is how we've always done it. This is the protocol, this is how it needs to be. Where I was, I kind of had the illusion of autonomy, but it wasn't true blue autonomy.

Mm-hmm. And. When I was given that here, it was like the skies opened. I was like, oh, oh my goodness. Like this is amazing. And I actually have a say in how to be impactful and what could be meaningful. Absolutely.

I love that. That's great. I'm sure we could go on and on about this, but, um, I think the point that we're trying to make here is that it turns out that drama can actually be a really good thing.

Kind of a weird thing to say, right? Yeah, I know. Mind blown 

what, but it's, 

it's a particular kind of drama that we're looking at here. It's a drama with two M's. 

DRAMMA because that's what happens when social scientists try to be clever. Uh, so what, what we're gonna focus on for today's episode is a paper that came out just a few years ago.

The title of the paper is Need Satisfaction and Optimal Functioning At Leisure and Work, a Longitudinal Validation Study of the Drama Model, D-R-A-M-M-A. And of course we'll share the paper in the, uh. In the show notes so that folks can read it. Um, so what, what these researchers did was they, they tried to, uh, look at the impact of six core psychological needs that they squeezed into this acronym drama, D-R-A-M-M-A.

So those needs are detachment, relaxation, autonomy, mastery, meaning. Affiliation and they selected those six needs based on a systematic review of over 360 studies that linked leisure experiences to wellbeing, blending recovery, science with self-determination, and eudaimonia theory, which eudaimonia threoy We've talked a little bit about positive psychology and Martin Seligman.

That's a, that's a. Part of, uh, what underlies positive psychology. What they did was then they created and validated a tool to measure these drama needs in, uh, just shy of 300 German employees. They had them complete five surveys over several weeks, uh, before, during, and after vacation. And then they tried to measure.

When these needs are met, what changes in terms of these wellbeing outcomes? So the wellbeing metrics they measured are things like vitality, life satisfaction, subjective health. They also measured ill being markers like depressive complaints, need for recovery, tension, stress, stuff like that. Without going into too many details, the take home here was that when folks experienced these drama needs being met, so detachment, relaxation, autonomy, mastery, meaningfulness, and affiliation, when that happened in the workplace.

Everything else got better. They reported higher levels of vitality. They reported lower levels of stress, better life satisfaction, all those kinds of things. Relaxation, autonomy, and mastery seemed to be the key needs. Not all of the needs made a different, but, but those three needs, so. The ability to feel like I have some control over my day-to-day experience that I'm working towards something meaningful to me, that I'm growing, I'm developing, right?

That's the mastery need, and that when it's all said and done, I can detach myself from work and actually like relax and recharge. That those things, when those happened, everything else really improved. And I think you could see how this might apply to veterinary organizations. I mean, you know, in VetMed, whether we say it out loud or not, I think, I feel like we've sort of adopted this idea of like, we come to work and we work our asses off.

We work really hard and then we rest and detach hard as well. Sometimes you hear this like work hard, play hard thing, but I don't think it's really about play. It's about like when you're here, you dedicate yourself wholly, and then when you leave you're supposed to detach healthy boundaries, all that kind of stuff.

The problem I think, is that in vet Med we rarely allow ourselves those boundaries to rest and detach away from work. We seem to like carry our work with us all the time. So that was the paper. Then that brings us to, I think, you know, what does this mean for us in vet med, right. Well, I think the first thing is that passive recovery is powerful.

They found pretty unequivocally that detachment and relaxation, what they've called passive recovery. Passive, because it's stuff that requires no effort. So it's letting our body and our brain rest and reset, like truly detach from work, doing things that have nothing to do with work. Simple, like momentary examples of this or like, you know, I don't know, meditation, uh, uh, mindfulness, walking the dog with your phone off, like things like that, right?

Those two things seem to be most consistently successful in cutting stress intention for, uh, the participants. So I'm curious, Andi, what do you do? To detach from work. I mean, you, you said that you feel like you have a lot of autonomy, but you also feel the draw to the meaningfulness and the impact of the work.

And we know from other research that that draw to purpose can actually make it difficult for people to detach from work. So I'm curious, what are things that you do to detach yourself from your work at Flourish? How do you relax during work days, after work days, outside of work, those kinds of things.

You know, I really appreciate you asking, and I appreciate you bringing this up specifically because this is one I struggle with. I struggle with this. It's hard. It is hard for me to put it down and walk away and truly detach and, uh, hello. Vet Med, right? Like, yeah. So this is one that I sometimes need a little help with, which.

I get, thankfully it didn't used to, but now in my new role here at Flourish, right, I get a lot of that where I'm encouraged to step away. I'm encouraged to, for example, take 30 minutes a week out of my workday to go and do something that I like, go and do something that fuels me, and I, I do that right because.

As a part of our culture, that's a lot of, that's what we do and we get to talk about it and we get to share like, what did you do? This was really cool. I did this and it was fun. And so it encourages me and it shows me that it's safe, that I can go and do that. And so a lot of what I do, 'cause I live on a farm, right?

And so there's always something to do that's outside that I enjoy. Almost always, it involves my horses, right? Yeah. And 30 minutes is, you know, not enough time in horse girl land to go off and like ride or anything. However, I will go out and I'll throw them some hay for lunch. Maybe I'll go out and I'll brush Ferris or I'll brush doc's tail or you know, I'll rub Marshall's face and put fly stuff on his ears.

Or just spend time with the horses and that that is. That is critical and that is something that I have to be very intentional about doing because that one's a hard one for me. Hmm. 

That's awesome. So going and caring for and feeding your horses is one way that you find, like throughout your workday is to 

Yeah.

Take a little bit of a mental detachment and a de-stressor. Mm-hmm. It's relaxing for you. Mm-hmm. I have also, in the past, you didn't bring it up, but I have also heard you talk about how much you enjoy. Um, I'm gonna mess up the terms here. Cleaning stalls. 

Yes. Cleaning stalls. Yeah. Yeah. I solve all the world's problems when I clean stalls.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think of all the things I should have said when I cleaned stalls. 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. Exactly. That's awesome. Yep. Well, I'm glad, I'm glad you have those kinds of things. So, so those sound like, so you, you refer to, we, we have a policy here at Flourish where everybody's encouraged to take 30 minutes, on the clock time, if you will.

Mm-hmm. To, so,, be paid to do something that has nothing to do with work, but that refuels or energizes you. So, um, you refer to that. What about like, um, you know, we've got a bit of a break coming up here. We shut down 

mm-hmm. 

For the week of, uh, the 4th of July every year as an organization. What are some of the kinds of things that you think you'll do during that week that have nothing to do with work that'll help you detach from work and relax?

Uh, one of the big things I'll do, so my home office is its own sort of separate room in the house, and I will definitely close the laptop, close the door, and not come in my office for the week. If I wanna use my computer to do, say schoolwork or something else, that's fine. I'll do it in the living room.

Right. I won't do it in my office. I will definitely remove myself from this space in order to mentally detach. Um, that's awesome. But like otherwise. I, right now we are planning a beach day, like get o off the farm, go away from the, like, the everyday life. But there's also farm stuff, right? Like I'll ride a bunch.

I'm hoping to take some lessons, like just do things that I enjoy that are not work related. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's awesome. Josh, what about you? What, what, what are, what are your big things during the day that you. Use to really detach. 

Yeah. So I, I mean, obviously you and I have the unique experience of working from home.

Mm-hmm. So that changes things. Right. Um, what I have found for me that I wish I had discovered things like this when I was working in practice and found ways to, to do this. And we're actually gonna touch on some of these ideas a little bit later, but, um, I, uh, I make breakfast. Almost every day, at some point in time in the morning.

And that's like, to use a phrase that a friend of ours, Craig Spanx uses, uh, that's a forcing mechanism for me. It forces me for, to get up from my desk, walk away and go do something. It has nothing to do with work. Mm-hmm. And then my wife works from home too. Uh, Greta. So then, you know, I'm making breakfast with the two of us, and then we sit down and eat together often.

Yeah. Sometimes we eat at our desk. I'll admit that. But even just like. Stepping aside and making the breakfast. And then we do the same thing for lunch. Mm-hmm. And lunch, we typically will sit together and often this time of year, we'll go outside with the dogs and sit in the backyard or even take the dogs for a walk.

Mm-hmm. So those, those kinds of things give me the ability to detach. And the nice thing is, is that, you know, when I'm detaching with somebody else who doesn't work. With me. Um, we end up talking about things often that have nothing to do with, you know, flourish or vet me or anything like that. So, so that's a nice sort of like mental break.

Sure. You know, Andi, another thing that came out of this research was the, the power of mastery. And I wanna talk a little bit about mastery. Mastery about. Development, it's about goals, it's about growing, it's about, you know, stretching ourselves and enhancing our skills, our knowledge, our wisdom, those kinds of things.

Right? And one of the things that seemed to emerge is that skills stretch weeks, these, um, weeks where these participants reported that they were stretching their skills, actually really energized people. Um, you and I are both big fans of, uh, somebody who I had to look up how to spell his name, but I have learned how to say it out loud.

Mm-hmm. Uh, Mihai Chien Mihai, um, who has since passed, but he was one of the early, uh, you know, colleagues of Martin Seligman and one of the early, uh, adopters of positive psychology. A lot of his research was focused on what he referred to as flow states, and I know that you're familiar with flow states.

We know pretty unequivocally that being challenged and stretched is a critical way to achieve flow. Like we have to like be doing something that's a little bit of a stretch and something that we're interested in, so on and so forth. And when we get those two ingredients together and we can really focus on something, we can reach a flow state, which has been shown to have so many wellbeing benefits, but we can also be stretched too far.

And when we're stretched. Too far. We actually lose the ability to hit flow. We just get into a state of strain and stress. Right, and that when it persists over time, that can actually lead to burnout. What do you think Vitalizing stretches might look like in a veterinary practice? So that, that, like that sweet spot of stretching yourself a bit with something that maybe you're interested in or passionate about without being stretched too far.

What do you think that might look like in a veterinary setting? 

The first thing that comes to mind for me here is teaching and mentorship. 

Mm mm mm-hmm. 

Being in that type of a situation or that type of, of a, of a relationship where you can feel safe enough to push yourself a little bit and have. A teacher or a mentor or a, you know, some like the senior technician that can help you should you start to struggle so that you don't get to that frustrating point.

Right? So let's say that, you know, you're really great at putting in, you know, regular straight up IV catheters, like, no big deal. Cool. Cool. That's awesome. Like, it's super fun like that, like. Dopamine hit when you hit the vein and you get the flash and you're like, yes. And you're, it's just there, right?

Yeah. And you're starting to see some more critical cases and you're need to start putting in some more central lines. And that's still IVC land, right? But that's a little bit further and there's a lot more that comes with that, and there's a lot more technique and there's a little bit more stress and pressure, and the patient's blood pressure's not as good, and all of those things that kind of go into that.

Yeah. 

To me, that could be a really great. Achievable stretch. 

Mm-hmm. 

With a mentor or somebody to help guide you. Yeah. So that when you run into trouble, it's, oh yeah. Here, just, try it this way, or spin your stylet, or don't forget this, or don't forget that. Mm-hmm. So that you can flow into that.

Skill with confidence as opposed to somebody throwing, you know, the kid at you and going, here you go. You know, that's, that's kind of the difference. But taking that step, like taking that logical next step from a regular IV catheter to say a central line could be something that could be really. Really awesome because I, I'm gonna feel like a superstar if I can like 

Yeah.

Place a central line, like, come on, that's a big deal. Yeah. So, you know, stuff like that. Taking a skill and taking it one step further, you know, or, or taking, getting like another species or another type of, you know, so yeah. You're really great at putting IV catheters in small animals. Okay. What about small ruminants?

Ooh, right. Like they're still, they're, they're still veins. They're still rolly af but it's a different species, and that brings with it a whole bunch of cool new challenges that you can build upon and feel good about when you accomplish them. 

Hashtag Rollie af. I'm, I'm definitely gonna be using that one in Slack from now on.

Okay. So I, I hear, I hear at least three pieces there. I feel like I hear what you're saying is number one, um, is identifying a stretch skill. So you've mastered IB catheters. Maybe the next step for you would be central lines. Right? So identifying a stretch skill number two, a stretch skill that's of interest.

Mm-hmm. To that 

individual. Mm-hmm. So, hey Andi, I think, I think the next step for you is. Learning how to play central lines, what do you think? And you have the ability to say, oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And then element three or variable three on this three legged stool is having the social support, where you've got to use your word, a mentor, somebody who.

Is pretty good at the skill. Who can be there to offer advice, to offer guidance, to be an advocate, to support you, to be there, to help you through learning this skill. That if those three things are in place, you're gonna have , the ability to identify a stretch skill, lean into building that stretch skill without risking being too far stretched.

Yeah. Yep. I love that. I think that's awesome. I think that's awesome. You mentioned earlier, I'm just gonna kind of go through these really quick and then we'll switch to some, some ways that folks who are interested in cultural renovation in their practice can start implementing some of the lessons from this paper.

But they, they found that autonomy was kind of what they refer to as the quiet hero, that small bumps in the sense. Of control. And by the way, control is a really interesting thing. There's like real control and then there's perceived control. Mm-hmm. So real control is like, Hey Andi, you set your schedule however you wanna work, whenever you wanna work.

That's real. Full control. Perceived control might be like, listen Andi, I need you to be available Monday through Friday. The hours that I'm gonna be working are X, Y, Z. I just need to know that I'm gonna be able to contact you at some way during those hours, right? Like that's, that's a more perceived control.

I've put some guidelines and I've given you the, the outline of the sandbox to play in, but you still have the capacity to play in that sandbox, how you see fit, right? They found that small bumps in control like that, so example, giving people the capacity to choose tasks, to prioritize tasks. To provide input on, uh, activities or projects or things like that actually nudged vitality up and it, uh, reduced the need for recovery.

And that's a really interesting one. Uh, what this basically suggests is that if we can give people a little bit more autonomy. Their actual need to feel like they have to separate themselves fully from work might be reduced. Another one was that meaning and affiliation were important, just not as strong as the other needs.

So meaning and affiliation at work, were still tied to things like life satisfaction, but they didn't quite swing the. Other wellbeing metrics as strongly as, uh, the other drama needs did. One way that we could think about these is that these are slow burn nutrients. That meaning and affiliation are things that build over time, which makes sense when you think about it, right?

Like purpose is not, I like to think of it as like big P and little p purpose, you know? Big P purpose. That's not something that really happens in moments all the time, every day. It's something that builds over time. You make deposits, right? And certainly affiliation, which is the interpersonal relationships.

It's the same thing, like you don't, how often in your life, Andi, have you met somebody? Instantly in the first interaction, they were the BFF of your lifetime. 

Very rarely. 

Yeah. 

It doesn't 

happen very often, right? Yeah. Not very often. It's something, yeah, it's something that builds over time. So these are slow burn nutrients.

Mm-hmm. 

So this of course, all begs the question, how do we put this stuff to use in veterinary practices? If a hospital is interested in cultural renovation, if they're looking at their current culture and they're feeling like, I don't know if we're meeting these drama needs to the full extent, and this is important to us, we gotta start thinking about those things.

So let's start with detachment. And relaxation. 'cause those seem to be like two critical ones and ones that I think you would agree, Andi, we struggle with in. 

Mm-hmm. Yes, definitely agree. 

So one idea, um, that I thought about was, um, this idea of micro breaks. Uh, an example could be like creating, um, no tox zones or no work talk zones, right?

Where like, there's uh, moments in the day where everybody's guaranteed a five or 10 minute, like mental switch off, uh, and, and guaranteed. And whether that's everybody collectively or if you do this individually, um, I remember I used to sort of. Take those in the last practice that I was a part of, but I was also the managing partner and practice manager.

So I had all the autonomy in the world to take those breaks. I would sometimes just go walk outside the building for five or 10 minutes just to sort of get away from work. What if we have actually scheduled those? What if we actually like, encourage everybody in the hospital, like, listen Andi, he for the next 10 minutes, I don't wanna see you in this building.

There's a Starbucks next door, here's a $5 gift card. Go get yourself a coffee. Right? Like just if you made those routine and you sort of created a structure where, um, not only is this implemented and expected, but it's part of who we are, it's literally part of our culture that we find moments to detach ourselves from work.

How else could you see something like a micro break working? 

The social butterfly in me goes a little bit more towards the human connection side of that, right? And so, um, something that I used to try to do with some of my teams was at the beginning of rounds, right? Like, you knew you were gonna have rounds, it had to happen.

I would sort of set a mental clock in my head for about five to 10 minutes, and those first five to 10 minutes of rounds were, just. Free for all. Like we talk about silly stuff. We talk about what, you know, a movie. We talk about what you're gonna do this weekend. We talk about, like, we just talk about something that's not patience, right?

Not what's coming, not what's just whatever stuff, dinner, how was dinner? Dinner was really good, whatever. And to give everybody a chance to kind of breathe and mm-hmm. Not, you know, walk into rounds with, okay, now we have to do rounds so that we can go home. You know, it was like, no, no, no, we can all just breathe for a second and.

Yes, it definitely encouraged connection, but it also allowed that ability for people to detach for a second and then breathe and then we could come back into rounds and share our signal minutes and you know, discuss treatment plans and all of that stuff. And that was something that I think people, I think, I don't know, they might be listening and going, no way.

But I think they started to kind of look forward to that. Yes, because that was a chance to like be a human for a minute and. Breathe and that was, it was almost expected that that was gonna happen. 

Yeah. Oh, this is so good that, that I, I think that is absolutely solid gold. I think it, it does a few things, right?

Like it gives people, um, a moment of detachment. 

Mm-hmm. 

Uh, because you're, you're not, we're not talking about work right now. Mm-hmm. We're talking about you as a human being. It also enhances that. Drama need of affiliation, you refer to as, you know, that interpersonal connectedness. Right. So it's a connection builder.

It's giving us an opportunity to get to know each other, um, and connect. I I think that's absolutely fantastic 'cause it's a wonderful, a wonderful tool to implement within a team. That's super easy to do. Mm-hmm. How long did that take? Five minutes? Yeah. 10 minutes. Yeah. 

And there were very rare times, right when we had like an emergency that was mm-hmm.

Hitting the door or, you know, a patient that was not doing well where we, we didn't have, you know, the time to do that and that was legit. But that far outweighed the opportunity for us to take that valuable five minutes to just breathe, slow down for a second, and connect with one another. 

Yeah. Oh, that's, that's fantastic.

Um, another one that, that I thought about, uh, as I was reading this paper, I was reminded of, there was a doctor who I worked with, oh my gosh, probably 25 years ago now. What? You're not that. Yeah, I know, right? Um, so this was in a, like a six doctor, small animal practice, general practice. And, um, this one doctor in particular, this was really, really important to her.

And so she. Finagled her schedule to allow for this. And I'm thinking back on it now and I'm like, gosh, you know, this would've been awesome if everybody would've done this. And not just her, but, I'm probably gonna mess up the exact dates, but as I recall that it was like every Thursday afternoon at two o'clock, she would have a half hour block that was.

Sacrosanct. It was held, not, there were no appointments. You could not override it like this was, she wasn't even gonna see emergencies or anything. It was a 30 minute block where she went back to treatment and all the technicians gathered around her a. And it was like an ask me anything session. Mm-hmm.

She would usually have like a, um, a specific topic, so I don't know, fluid therapy. Right? Mm-hmm. And she would, sometimes she would do just like a mini presentation on it. Usually what it was was just all the technicians and all the tech assistants got to ask whatever questions they wanted about that topic.

And it was a really cool way to like, uh, you know, provide a learning environment, which is very much about the mastery need. 

Mm-hmm. 

Uh, and it's showing that like. At least for this individual, your growth, your development, your, you know, working towards mastery is really, really important here.

Mm-hmm. 

And so, you know, implementing something like that could be really cool. Have you ever experienced anything like that in any of the practices that you were a part of? 

I love that. And yes, yes. We had, um, when I worked at uf, we had a couple of residents at the time that were so good at that exact thing.

They would, you know, they'd wander into rounds or they'd wander up to a group of us, working on a patient or doing whatever, and they would just hang out and they would, , offer insight and they would make themselves available in ways that were approachable and genuine so that the tech.

Team could say, Hey, we got this result on the blood gas and it was a little bit different. Can we talk through that? And it was that, that sort of dedicated opportunity where we knew that we weren't interrupting them, that they deliberately made themselves available and that made a. All the difference.

It really did. I mean, I remember my team being like, oh, Dr. Dr. Cox really great. She always answers our questions. And Dr. Hobbs is always right there. Yeah. Yeah. And they, they came to rounds and they answered our questions about this case. I mean, that was a big deal, and that made a huge difference. They felt seen.

I love it. I love it. I, I'm gonna encourage all the listeners out there. Listen, I, I think that ultimately if we really sort of dig down deep, sometimes what we find is that our culture in terms of how it is experienced and perceived within a veterinary practice or any, any organization or team, our culture is ultimately, which of my needs, which of our needs are being met.

Or unmet that, that's how culture is ultimately defined by a lot of people in a lot of circumstances. So I'm gonna encourage our listeners, you know, download this paper, read through it, check out the drama needs. Think about what, what is one need that maybe we're falling a bit short of in our, in our hospital's culture or our team's culture.

And how can we renovate that? How can we make sure that we operationalize, that we create structures for that need to be met just a little bit better in our hospitals. And I think. People will find, uh, um, some really powerful outcomes from that. At least that's what this, this research suggests. Andi, with that.

Of course we'll share the paper in the show notes and all the other links that related. But now comes my most favorite part of our podcast, Florida Man, this week. What do you got for us? 

Oh, I've got a good one. I've got a good one this week. So, Florida man, this week comes to us from Stewart, Florida, which is down near West Palm.

Okay. 

And this week. Police said this Florida man attempted to steal a boat outside of a restaurant, but forgot the most important thing. To untie the boat from the dock. This Florida man almost got away with the boat heist outside of a waterfront restaurant when he tried to make off with a 23 foot boat.

Here's the kicker. The man whose boat this Florida man was trying to steal, happened to be a retired law enforcement officer. He jumped on the guy, detained him, and kept him in custody until the police could come and arrest him.

Oh, Florida man. 

Oh, Florida man. Oh my gosh. What, what I love most about this is how, like there is seems to be never ending, uh, you know, um, well, of Florida man stories. Yeah. Uh, and so I feel like as long as this podcast goes on, we're gonna have some great stories to share with you. Oh. Where? 

Oh yeah,

Florida man, be Florida, Manning, Florida, 

man. Be Florida, Manning. 

Yep. Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. It's always like a head shake. Like, what are you? 

Yeah. What are you doing? 

Not thinking. We are not thinking. 

No, no. There is no, there's no thought. Poor choices. Poor choices. And dude, awesome. Heck yeah. Well, that, that brings us to the end of this edition of the Veterinary Culture Lab.

Andi, thanks. It's always a blast to chat with you about these things and those of you out there listening, thanks for taking the time. We'll, we'll see you next time.